Tilbudsjagten: 65" LG B3 OLED til 10.990,-

[bromberg]

Elgigantens sælgere er generelt ikke til ret meget andet end at hente den vare jeg ønsker.
Det er sørgeligt at det ikke engang er at pille ved sandheden.
Min lokale er Slagelse når jeg handler deroppe stiller jeg tit mig selv spørgsmålet om det overhovedet er lovligt at vejlede på den måde de gør.
I bedste fald lyver de eller også ved de ikke bedre.
Det er harmdirrende at høre på deres argumenter når en mormor kommer og vil købe et eller andet til sit barnebarn og blive vejledt i en retning der er direkte grim.

[PeterD]

Det er også sørgeligt at vide, at det har stået på i mange år, +15 +/- og det sikkert fortsætter mange år endnu.

Men hvad kan man gøre ?

Ombudsmanden ?
Konkurrence styrelsen ?
Erhvervsministeren ?

Intet.

Mens firmaet har 3 cifret millionoverskud hvert eneste år, mens de åbner nye varehuse hver 12 måned og runder sikkert snart 50 stk bare herhjemme.

Elkjøb gør det godt.

Spørgsmålet er så bare om man kommer hjem med det, til en, rigtige produkt ?

[TSizzle]

Det er også sørgeligt at vide, at det har stået på i mange år, +15 +/- og det sikkert fortsætter mange år endnu.

Men hvad kan man gøre ?

Ombudsmanden ?
Konkurrence styrelsen ?
Erhvervsministeren ?

Intet.

Mens firmaet har 3 cifret millionoverskud hvert eneste år, mens de åbner nye varehuse hver 12 måned og runder sikkert snart 50 stk bare herhjemme.

Elkjøb gør det godt.

Spørgsmålet er så bare om man kommer hjem med det, til en, rigtige produkt ?

Så fordi en virksomhed med 2500 ansatte, har nogle som ikke kan finde ud af at følge en kædepolitik og/eller, er så nye i deres ansættelse, at de ikke 100% kan vejlede til punkt og prikke, på tværs af flere tusinde varer, så skal alle skæres over en kam?

Det er simpelthen trættende, hvordan man skal udskældes med øgenavne, sættes i bås som værende svindler, og des lignende herinde, blot fordi I har en holdning til, hvad I føler er korrekt om den kæde man arbejder for.

Hvad f** er argumentet for, at en virksomhed skal meldes til nogen af de ovenstående instanser, blot fordi de er en rentabel virksomhed?
Hvordan kan det, at Elgiganten kan drives rentabelt, og fortsat etablere nye varehuse, som bringer produkterne, diverse services, og muligheden for er reklamere, hente hjælp, mm., tættere på den enkelte borger, nogensinde være en negativ ting, og noget der skal udskældes?

Jeg kan sige så meget: Det er ikke - og har i mange år ikke været - prædiken internt, at man skal prakke nogen kunder noget som helst på, som de ikke har brug for.
Derimod er det prædiken, at man skal sikre, at man kan behovsafdække hver kunde, og vejlede dem bedst muligt til at få afdækket den individuelles behov, og sælge dem den rigtige løsning.
Men .. selvfølgelig er der forskel på forudsætningerne for dette, om du har været der i 5+ år, og gjort dig tusinde erfaringer omkring produkterne, eller om du har været der i ganske få måneder, og stadig har en del læring foran dig.
De af os med mange år på bagen, ved jeg i store træk, gør et ihærdigt arbejde for at sikre, at så mange som muligt, er klædt så godt som muligt på.

Så nu siger jeg det igen; Kan vi for f** ikke hæve niveauet fra øgenavne som "ElMutant" (hvilket ikke kom fra dig, PeterD, bevares), synsninger, og virkelighedsfjerne holdninger, som bunder i dette, så der kan være plads til os alle herinde?

Ærligt talt, så har jeg længe nydt at læse med herinde, men aldrig haft lyst til at deltage, alene af den grund, at ovenstående trend simpelthen har stået på alt, alt for længe .. Og nu har jeg bare fået nok.

[peterdebel]

Fair nok.

Det er jo firmaet som et eller andet sted må vise, gennem længere tid/ flere år, må vise at de ikke gør det som trådstarter er inde på.

Firmaet har iøvrigt også været i forbruger programmet "Kontant" for 5 år siden.

https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/kontant_-giga ... ris_219648

Måske det har ændret sig nu ?

[KimKaos]

Nej ElMutanten kom fra mig - men det er blot et lokalt københavner-øgenavn og ikke fordi jeg har noget imod dem - de er lige så ringe/gode som f.eks. Power og jeg handler begge steder (og alle andre) - i bund og grund så handler det om hvad de kan tilbyde og pris.

Hvis Knud-Børge eller Ali kommer og vil snakke tv så kikker vi på krav/ønsker og når de har fundet et der opfylder deres behov og økonomi - så er jeg bedøvet om det er ElMutanten/Power/Hifi/osv. - bundlinjen er hvem kan levere og til hvilken pris og hvad hvis skidtet ikke virker hvor nemt er det så at ombytte osv.

Og den ene uge så er det den ene og den næste er det den 3. der disker op med det bedste tilbud

[TSizzle]

@Peterdebel Den vil jeg egentligt meget gerne stå på mål for, for indholdet af programmet dengang, var helt på sin plads.
Vi var overgået til nye IT-systemer, som gav væsentlige problemer, både ift. behandling af kunders betalinger (og tilbagebetalinger), samt massive logistiske udfordringer, som man lokalt kæmpede med at få løst dagligt.
I min optik, så gik man live med systemet for tidligt, men det blev rullet ud i hele norden, og så måtte man arbejde med det derfra, og ja, det efterlod nogle kunder i nogle virkeligt ærgerlige situationer. Det er heldigvis 4 år siden, og systemet er i dag blandt de absolut bedste i retailbranchen, og efterlader ingenlunde kunderne med de samme udfordringer i dag - heldigvis.

Ift. den kortere del, som involverede klargøringer af TV, så kiggede man indad, anerkendte man havde fejlet, og sløjfede produktet. I dag er der medarbejdere i alle varehuse, som er certificerede i Calman kalibrering, som sikrer kvaliteten af dette lokalt. Igen - heldigvis.

@KimKaos nu er jeg selv Københavner, og uagtet om det er et "gængst" øgenavn eller ej i dine kredse, så er det direkte arrogant, ikke at forholde sig til, at man bliver kaldt ud på brugen af dette, men insisterer på vedholdende at benytte sig af det.
Der må vi sku alle være bedre, for brugen af sådanne øgenavne gør intet andet, end at udelukke folk fra et fællesskab, som både kan bidrage med nuancer, læring og inklusion.

[KimKaos]

Det har du lov til at mene og hvis du vil udelukke mig eller dig selv af fællesskabet for at bruge øgenavne om en virksomhed så gør det men spørg lige din chef først om det er en god ide at begynde at skælde ud på kunderne i et offentlig forum.

Du har givet din mening til kende og bør vide at en fornuftig repræsentant for en virksomhed lader det blive ved det fremfor at eskalere

Jeg er kunde hos Elmutanten og alle de andre og det kan du ikke ændre på - Jeg tilgodeser dem jeg rådgiver også selvom en hypersensitiv repræsentant for en af virksomhederne småbrokker sig i et forum

[PeterD]

Uanset er det nu dejligt at vide, at man (nu måske) kan gå i en af de mange butikker uden at få prakket et bestemt mærke på hvis man leder efter et tv, en mobil eller fordi det første produkt der popper op i sælgerens hoved er mærke XXX.

[Pede8000]

Man må aldrig forveksle en sælger med en uvildig rådgiver. Dette gælder alle steder. Når det er sagt, er der ingen seriøse aktører, der er interesserede i engangs kunder. Derfor bør man sælge således at kunden vil komme igen.

Jeg er sikker på at man, i for eksempel Elgiganten, uddanner medarbejderne i at afdække kundens behov. Derefter sælger man dem et produkt der er tæt behovet, dog det med mest avance. Alt andet ville være dårligt købmandsskab.

Dette gælder ikke kun i retail, men også i for eksempel pengeinstitutter, hvor medarbejderne burde kaldes Likviditets-sælgere, og ikke bankrådgivere.

Glem ikke at disse kæder er sat i verden for at tjene penge, også på lang sigt.

[PeterD]

Så måske er nethandel ikke så dårligt alligevel for den enkelte, men måske for samfundet i det lange løb..

[Pede8000]

Så måske er nethandel ikke så dårligt alligevel for den enkelte, men måske for samfundet i det lange løb..

Er ikke sikker på hvad du mener?

Ved nethandel, som ved handel i fysik butik er det godt at være forberedt.

Hvis man ikke har sat sig ind i stoffet er man på herrens mark.

Her er flatpanels.dk en god hjælp. Dette gælder fora, test og oversigter.

[Gentleman Finn]

Det blev til et TCL C935. Lækkert tv!

Hvordan finder jeg nemmest de bedste billedesettings til dét tv?

[KimKaos]

Prøv med denne her

[PeterD]

Det blev til et TCL C935. Lækkert tv!

Hvordan finder jeg nemmest de bedste billedesettings til dét tv?

Spændende!

Held & Lykke med skærmen.

Lidt indstillinger du kan prøve:

Svar #57 her:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/tcl-c9 ... t-30704567


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TCL TVs Forum
TCL C935 Owners and Discussion Thread
Thread starterJurin Start dateSep 8, 2022 Tagsdiscussion tcl thread
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SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#51
I've some questions.

-What's the internet speed that the TV reaches when you connect it to WIFI? (Using 5 Ghz band) It's supposed to use WIFI6 so it should be higher than the average TV's with WIFI5 (to get the benefits you must have a router that's also WIFI6) However, it would be good to have a measurement even if your router isn't WFI6.

-The TV has a 3.5mm Jack port to connect headphones, do you think you could do a little sound quality test? I'm interested to know if it presents some type of electrical or static/white noise when there's no sound/content playing, and how is the sound in general. No need to use expensive headphones, cheap $5 ones are fine.

-How is the black level performance in a pitch black room? According to your eye, do you think that the effect of "TV off" is achieved when there's a completely black background? (LD set to High) In the scenes when almost the entire screen is black and there is an object in the center, do you think the "floating object" effect can be achieved? (where the black colors of the TV are so deep that they blend with the total darkness of your room, making very difficult to know where the edges of the TV start and end and generating the effect that the object in the middle is floating).

-In addition to the previous question, how is the performance of the black level in content with black bars? (with LD set to High) Do you notice if there's any sacrifice of the depth of the black color in the bars? as if they were more gray or with less depth (compared to a completely black background) On the TCL C835 this happens and it's a bit noticeable, especially if the scene is demanding, but it may not be the case for the C935 since it has almost 3 or 4 times more dimming zones, so maybe it doesn't need sacrifice the depth of the black bars to combat blooming.
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#52
JurgenHanz said:
Did you measure the color gamut? Also are you not going to return the TV now?
Pretty typical QLED.

BT.2020 70.6%
DCI-P3 D65 93.3%
BT.709 99.8%

.. Still undecided. But more positive. Nothing else in this price point can compete really. Would an X95K be better to justify a 2400 euro price difference as it is currently? Heck no.
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1
JurgenHanz
JurgenHanz
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#53
Jurin said:
Pretty typical QLED.

BT.2020 70.6%
DCI-P3 D65 93.3%
BT.709 99.8%

.. Still undecided. But more positive. Nothing else in this price point can compete really. Would an X95K be better to justify a 2400 euro price difference as it is currently? Heck no.
Click to expand...X95k and QN90B are both too inferior to be a clear upgrade especially for their prices.
Reply

1
Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#54
SinNovedad said:
I've some questions.

-What's the internet speed that the TV reaches when you connect it to WIFI? (Using 5 Ghz band) It's supposed to use WIFI6 so it should be higher than the average TV's with WIFI5 (to get the benefits you must have a router that's also WIFI6) However, it would be good to have a measurement even if your router isn't WFI6.

-The TV has a 3.5mm Jack port to connect headphones, do you think you could do a little sound quality test? I'm interested to know if it presents some type of electrical or static/white noise when there's no sound/content playing, and how is the sound in general. No need to use expensive headphones, cheap $5 ones are fine.

-How is the black level performance in a pitch black room? According to your eye, do you think that the effect of "TV off" is achieved when there's a completely black background? (LD set to High) In the scenes when almost the entire screen is black and there is an object in the center, do you think the "floating object" effect can be achieved? (where the black colors of the TV are so deep that they blend with the total darkness of your room, making very difficult to know where the edges of the TV start and end and generating the effect that the object in the middle is floating).

-In addition to the previous question, how is the performance of the black level in content with black bars? (with LD set to High) Do you notice if there's any sacrifice of the depth of the black color in the bars? as if they were more gray or with less depth (compared to a completely black background) On the TCL C835 this happens and it's a bit noticeable, especially if the scene is demanding, but it may not be the case for the C935 since it has almost 3 or 4 times more dimming zones, so maybe it doesn't need sacrifice the depth of the black bars to combat blooming.
Click to expand...Well the strange thing is that it doesn't actually see my 5GHz network at all only the 2.4GHz (Asus RT-AC66U router). It does list some of my neighbours 5GHz networks (or so they claim based on the SSID). My internet connection is 250M/100M and the 2.4GHz network is giving me around 235Mbit/s. down (1G USB dongle of course the full 250). So can't really test that any further I'm afraid.

It's zero nits black at LD High and it quite aggressively minimises blooming so I'd say yes to "floating object". Of course it's not an OLED so if you have HDR content with stupid bright subtitles they will bloom (example). But the blooming to me looks quite "natural" because the brightness level where you'd see blooming you would have "blooming" and glare in your eyes anyways. Keep in mind that I come from a Sony XG95 which is a blooming mess with HDR. 60 zones vs. 1920 is a staggering improvement. For someone coming in from an OLED it might be a different experience.

Black bars are black to me. Only exception when you have subtitles on. But if your only concern is absolute blacks & black bars then get an OLED.

LCD has other benefits that OLED does not have which are more important to me
Vastly better motion on low framerate content
Far less stutter on 24fps
No dithering on dark tones (or far less)
No chrominance overshoot
Color volume
No burn in. Set it and forget it. No need to baby it for the first 200h.
Easier to calibrate because no ABL, or ASBL
Brightness
Brightness stability (far less ABL)
Reply

2
SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#55
Jurin said:
My internet connection is 250M/100M and the 2.4GHz network is giving me around 235Mbit/s. down
That's excellent, it's a very good sign that the 2.4 band is capable of giving you almost all of your speed, it gives a clue to what to expect from the 5 Ghz band.

Yes, OLED is not an option for me because I don't want to have to worry about burn-ins or having to treat the TV almost like a baby, I intend to use it most of the time as a PC Monitor, so it will have to be ON 5 or 6 hours a day or more and you can imagine it, Windows bar, Chrome bar, Text, Word, etc. a Burn In nightmare. So I was looking for a TV as close to an OLED in black level, I don't care much about blooming in subtitles since it's something to be expected. The black bars and "floating content" thing was more to rule out a problem that was being seen in the US version of the C835 line and some bugs with the LD.

Within the 2022 line the "competitors" of the C935 would be the QN90B and X95K, however, the QN90B has a much inferior Local Dimming algorithm than the TCL and I hate its OS and not to mention the X95K that from what I've seen is a blooming monster in real content, its native contrast is only 1,723:1 (almost like an IPS, despite being VA) and with the LD set to High it barely reaches 5,195:1, it's not even capable of reaching the base native contrast of the TCL with LD off, the C935 has a little less base contrast than the C835 because it has a filter to increase the viewing angles that the C835 doesn't have (it's a very similar filter to the one used by the QN90B this year)
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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1
SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#56
Another reason not to go for the X95K (which almost nobody talks about) is that it has a response time of 9.9ms (100% GTG) which will make you see Black Smearing when gaming or using the TV as a monitor, since the screen being 120hz (1/120 x 1000) needs at least a response time of 8.3ms or less and with 9.9ms you fall short. The TCL C835 according to THIS source has a G-T-G time response of 6.5ms (Not yet confirmed by any other source, and it's not confirmed or measured if this number is 0-100% or 0-80%) which is excellent and should not have black smearing of any kind (or at least not be so noticeable), and its better than QN90B which is 7.9ms. (don't confuse response time with input lag, as some VA monitors/tv's have input lags of 1-5ms but a gray to gray response time of 10ms or more)

And trust me when I tell you that the problem of 4:2:2 subsampling at 4K 120hz (that these TCL have) is nothing compared to the black smearing problem that some VA panels with a slow GTG response time have (Black smearing also affects games)



It can even harm the Local Dimming algorithm, and cause the edges of fast-moving objects to show colors that shouldn't be there. This black smearing issue was present on last year's TCL C825 as it had a GTG response time of around 11ms

smearing.png
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
Reply
Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#57
Settings for C935

Display and sound / Intelligent Picture
- Disable all under this menu

Picture (SDR)
Picture preset: Movie
(Also Standard mode measures the exact same when you match the settings with Movie mode. So basically it’s just a copy of Movie. So you could basically use Standard for daytime and Movie for Nightime with different gamma etc. for example.)

Brightness: ~20
This is roughly 120cd/m2 on Local Dimming: High. Go higher if your room is bright

Colour Saturation: 50
(If you use the internal Youtube app dial it back to ~35. It’s not accurate until they fix the Color Space bug but at least it’s not grossly oversatured)

Advanced settings / Brightness settings:
Brightness: same setting as above
Contrast: 90
Black level: 50
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black stretch: Off
Dynamic brightness: Off
Local dimming: High
Local contrast: Off (Maybe 'Low' if you want a bit of 3D pop to the image. But beware it will clip shadows. Preference not reference)
Gamma: 2 (Set to your room lighting condition so you see shadow details properly. My unit tracks Gamma 2.35 after calibration on setting 2 and is perfect for dark room)

Advanced settings / Colour:
Colour saturation: Same setting as above
Tint: 50
Blue light filter: Off
Colour temperature: -5 (Warm: slider all the way to the left)


Advanced settings / Clarity:
Sharpness: 0-20. Depends on your source quality. Good quality 1080p / 4K sources 0-10. Poor sources: I wouldn't go above 20.
Digital noise reduction: Off. Removes compression artefacts. Depends on your source quality. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result. Turn off for good quality sources.
Noise reduction: Off. Removes random noise. Depends on your source quality. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result. Turn off for good quality sources.
Gradation clear: Off. Attempts to smooth out banding. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result (which mostly is off or low)

Advanced settings / Motion clarity:
Set to your liking
I use: Blur reduction: 9, Judder reduction: 2. This gives a very nice smooth motion with no SOE or Stutter

Advanced settings / Expert calibration:
RGB-mode: Off
You will need it properly calibrated for these but rough 2-point might help:
White balance / 2-points: R-Gain: -5, G-Gain: 0, B-Gain: -7, R-offset: 0, G-offset: 0, B-offset: -1. See how it looks. Might not work for your panel.
20 point: Off unless calibrated
Color space: Auto

Screen settings:
Auto format: On. Seems to work just fine.
Screen mode: 16:9.
Overscan: Off.

Apply all picture mode:
Basically the settings have two modes:
Per source ("Current source") and Per picture mode ("All source").
Ideally you would make the settings you want on one input & picture mode then switch this to 'All source'. This will then copy all the settings you made to all inputs. If anyone has more insight how this works please let me know..
In reality this has some bugs. Some settings might just refuse to copy over.

For HDR
Just use the same settings for HDR but:
Brightness: 100%
Contrast: 100%
Gamma: 0
Dynamic Tone Mapping: Off
The same rough 2-point WB adjustment might work here as well. Some HDR-modes don't even provide WB settings.
Also the IMAX -mode is very usable and fairly accurate.

Make sure that if it's using Dolby Vision it's not using Dolby Vision IQ (which is the default). It's got processing you can't turn off and looks crap imho. Use Dolby Vision Dark for dark room (nightime) viewing and Dolby Vision Bright for a bright room (daytime).