andersbrohus skrev:Syntes bare at efter at alle er begyndt med at have forskellige "typer" hertz så jo mere Hertz de har jo mere flydende et billede får man?Det flydende look, du efterstræber – også kaldet sæbeopera-effekten – er faktisk det, som man i seriøse tests (bl.a. her på siden) forsøger at eliminere, da det, som Torben er inde på, uvægerligt introducerer såkaldte artefakter i billedet og i det hele taget skaber et unaturligt billede frem for blot at vise det billede, som feedes via kildematerialet.
andersbrohus skrev:Sådan ligner det da i hvertfald ude i Elgiganten?Skærmene i Elgiganten er (som hovedregel) ikke indstillet korrekt og kører i øvrigt med en "misvisende" demodisk fra Philips. Så hvad du ser dér, skal du tage med et vist gran salt – hvad du i øvrigt helt generelt skal, når du kigger i en butik. Farven på rammen er som regel (beklageligvis) det eneste, du kan få vished om.
HDTVtest skrev:
Sony W6
CONCLUSION – Up until last year, a 42 inch LCD-based TV almost certainly points to the use of IPS-type panel whose contrast performance often disappoints. This year, we’ve tested at least two HDTVs with 42″ screen size which feature VA LCD panels, delivering the sort of deep blacks commonly associated with top-tier LED LCDs.
The Sony KDL-42W653A is one such TV: it handles both HD and SD feeds with great composure, and is above all a supreme large-screen gaming display. A few people may lament the omission of tri-dimensional capability, but given the lacklustre reception to 3D among the general public, we’re sure some potential buyers would gladly give this up in exchange for a more affordable price.
PICTURE QUALITY – The Sony KDL-42W653A uses a VA-type LCD panel supplied by Taiwanese vendor AUO (AU Optronics), which translates to deep blacks by LED LCD standards. On a 4×4 ANSI checkerboard pattern, we measured the TV’s black level to be 0.046 cd/m2 which is on par with this year’s VA-based high-end LED televisions like the Sony W9 as well as the Samsung F7000 and F8000. As is the case with most LED LCDs, the W653 dimmed its backlight down to 0.022 cd/m2 when asked to display a full black screen.
Considering its edge LED makeup and svelte build, our KDL42W653 review sample exhibited surprisingly good backlight uniformity, without any sign of clouding or corner bleed. A subtle dirty screen effect (DSE) was visible in the centre of the panel particularly when we put up 20% to 30% stimulus full-field grey patterns, but to be honest this is pretty much unavoidable on all large-sized edge-lit LED TVs due to the way a limited number of LED bulbs (which are placed along the borders) are required to illuminate the entire screen. The DSE on our Sony W6 review unit was extremely mild, and rarely bothered us in real-world content.
The KDL42W653A is advertised by Sony as featuring Motionflow XR 200Hz, but it’s important to understand that this is simply a figure for marketing purposes (similar to Samsung’s Clear Motion Rate or LG’s TruMotion), rather than the true refresh rate of the TV. Running our reference motion resolution test pattern (Chapter 31 in the FPD Benchmark Software disc) on the Bravia W65 returned a result of 300 which is what we would expect natively from an LCD panel without the help of MCFI (motion-compensated frame interpolation).
Interestingly, the Sony W653 doesn’t have any [Motionflow] control available in its user menu, but does offer an [LED Motion Mode] option which activates backlight scanning on the television. When enabled, motion resolution jumped to 1080 (the maximum value possible in the FPD Benchmark test pattern), but three undesirable side effects ensued: a drop in luminance; increased flicker that was especially noticeable on bright scenes; and double ghosted image on moving objects. In other words, although [LED Motion Mode] significantly reduced motion blur, it came with several shortcomings which made it pretty much unusable in our opinion. Your mileage may vary.
While we’re at it, we ran our custom “motion interpolation checker” pattern on the KDL42W653A, and verified that no forced motion interpolation took place in any of the [Scene Select] presets. Having no MCFI forcibly applied is particularly relevant for the [Cinema] mode which is our picture preset of choice for critical viewing – the last thing we want is for the cinematic quality of 24fps movies to be subverted by ugly soap opera effect.
HD feed looked nothing short of stunning, helped immensely by the set’s deep blacks and balanced colours. 1080p/24 signal from Blu-ray playback was presented impeccably without any sign of telecine judder. The Sony KDL42W653 is no slouch at handling standard-definition content too, delivering crisp upconversion without excessive ringing, as well as competent film cadence detection, though the TV’s jaggies suppression for video-based material was not as effective as Samsung’s or Panasonic’s (to be fair, the difference was more marked in HQV Benchmark than in real-life content).
Sony’s 2013 Bravias have proven to be superb gaming TVs, and the W65 is no exception. With [Scene Select] set to “Game“, the 42W653A effortlessly smashed through our existing input lag record (held by another Sony – the W8), posting a jaw-dropping figure of 14.6ms on the Leo Bodnar lag tester. Engaging [LED Motion Mode] – should you wish to do so – barely increased the lag by a mere 6ms to 20.5ms which is an excellent level of responsiveness no other non-Sony HDTVs have been capable of matching to date. Add full 4:4:4 reproduction (in [Game] and [Graphics] mode) to the equation, and we’re convinced you won’t find a better flat-screen television on which to play video games at the moment.
Read full review
edinger skrev:Debatten om Full HD vs HD Ready har været taget mange gange før, og konklusionen er ret entydig:DU kan ikke se forskel, og mange andre kan måske heller ikke. Jeg ser TYDELIGT hønsenet (de sorte streger omkring hver pixel) og det udelukker fuldstændigt, totalt og endegyldigt X-modellerne - de er komplet ubrugelige for mit vedkommende (og nej, jeg er ikke så dum at jeg har bedømt fjernsynet ved at stå 20 cm foran det). Jeg er ikke absolut ikke den eneste der oplever det.
Hvor man altid vil kunne se forskel på en god og en mindre god skærm – med eller uden Full HD – kan man ikke omvendt konkludere, at en Full HD-skærm pr. definition er bedre end en HD Ready-skærm.
Op til 42 tommer, eller endda 50 afhængig af siddeafstand, vil man ikke kunne se forskel på en HD-Ready plasmaskærm som X60 og en middelmådig, men prissammenlignelig LCD-skærm med Full HD. Jo, måske lidt (i X60’erens favør).
Faktisk har tommelfingerreglen i flere år været, at man billedmæssigt får (langt) mere får pengene ved at vælge en billig HD-Ready plasmaskærm end en billig Full HD plasmaskærm. Og ofte også mere end en dyr(ere) Full HD LCD-skærm.
Jeg vil dog ikke forsøge at presse noget ned over hovedet på Anders eller andre. Jeg lægger blot tingene frem.
50PN650T er (også) en fin plasmaskærm
edinger skrev:Det med at skærmene i Elgiganten ikke er indstillet korrekt, det tvivler jeg også bare lidt på at mit bliver, fordi at jeg har ikke udstyret til at kalibrere TV eller bare skærme, syntes bare tydeligt at man kan se forskel på et billigt TV i Elgiganten og et dyrt, da det billige hakker meget mere end det dyrere, det er sikkert fordi de billige er dårlige til at lave den her sæbeopera?andersbrohus skrev:Syntes bare at efter at alle er begyndt med at have forskellige "typer" hertz så jo mere Hertz de har jo mere flydende et billede får man?Det flydende look, du efterstræber – også kaldet sæbeopera-effekten – er faktisk det, som man i seriøse tests (bl.a. her på siden) forsøger at eliminere, da det, som Torben er inde på, uvægerligt introducerer såkaldte artefakter i billedet og i det hele taget skaber et unaturligt billede frem for blot at vise det billede, som feedes via kildematerialet.
Smag og behag er dog forskellig. Og selvom det ikke er "korrekt", er det naturligvis aldeles legitimt at foretrække dette look. Det er tilladt at være uenig med sagkundskaben.
andersbrohus skrev:Sådan ligner det da i hvertfald ude i Elgiganten?Skærmene i Elgiganten er (som hovedregel) ikke indstillet korrekt og kører i øvrigt med en "misvisende" demodisk fra Philips. Så hvad du ser dér, skal du tage med et vist gran salt – hvad du i øvrigt helt generelt skal, når du kigger i en butik. Farven på rammen er som regel (beklageligvis) det eneste, du kan få vished om.
Men tilbage til skærmene...
HDTVtest skrev:
Sony W6
CONCLUSION – Up until last year, a 42 inch LCD-based TV almost certainly points to the use of IPS-type panel whose contrast performance often disappoints. This year, we’ve tested at least two HDTVs with 42″ screen size which feature VA LCD panels, delivering the sort of deep blacks commonly associated with top-tier LED LCDs.
The Sony KDL-42W653A is one such TV: it handles both HD and SD feeds with great composure, and is above all a supreme large-screen gaming display. A few people may lament the omission of tri-dimensional capability, but given the lacklustre reception to 3D among the general public, we’re sure some potential buyers would gladly give this up in exchange for a more affordable price.
PICTURE QUALITY – The Sony KDL-42W653A uses a VA-type LCD panel supplied by Taiwanese vendor AUO (AU Optronics), which translates to deep blacks by LED LCD standards. On a 4×4 ANSI checkerboard pattern, we measured the TV’s black level to be 0.046 cd/m2 which is on par with this year’s VA-based high-end LED televisions like the Sony W9 as well as the Samsung F7000 and F8000. As is the case with most LED LCDs, the W653 dimmed its backlight down to 0.022 cd/m2 when asked to display a full black screen.
Considering its edge LED makeup and svelte build, our KDL42W653 review sample exhibited surprisingly good backlight uniformity, without any sign of clouding or corner bleed. A subtle dirty screen effect (DSE) was visible in the centre of the panel particularly when we put up 20% to 30% stimulus full-field grey patterns, but to be honest this is pretty much unavoidable on all large-sized edge-lit LED TVs due to the way a limited number of LED bulbs (which are placed along the borders) are required to illuminate the entire screen. The DSE on our Sony W6 review unit was extremely mild, and rarely bothered us in real-world content.
The KDL42W653A is advertised by Sony as featuring Motionflow XR 200Hz, but it’s important to understand that this is simply a figure for marketing purposes (similar to Samsung’s Clear Motion Rate or LG’s TruMotion), rather than the true refresh rate of the TV. Running our reference motion resolution test pattern (Chapter 31 in the FPD Benchmark Software disc) on the Bravia W65 returned a result of 300 which is what we would expect natively from an LCD panel without the help of MCFI (motion-compensated frame interpolation).
Interestingly, the Sony W653 doesn’t have any [Motionflow] control available in its user menu, but does offer an [LED Motion Mode] option which activates backlight scanning on the television. When enabled, motion resolution jumped to 1080 (the maximum value possible in the FPD Benchmark test pattern), but three undesirable side effects ensued: a drop in luminance; increased flicker that was especially noticeable on bright scenes; and double ghosted image on moving objects. In other words, although [LED Motion Mode] significantly reduced motion blur, it came with several shortcomings which made it pretty much unusable in our opinion. Your mileage may vary.
While we’re at it, we ran our custom “motion interpolation checker” pattern on the KDL42W653A, and verified that no forced motion interpolation took place in any of the [Scene Select] presets. Having no MCFI forcibly applied is particularly relevant for the [Cinema] mode which is our picture preset of choice for critical viewing – the last thing we want is for the cinematic quality of 24fps movies to be subverted by ugly soap opera effect.
HD feed looked nothing short of stunning, helped immensely by the set’s deep blacks and balanced colours. 1080p/24 signal from Blu-ray playback was presented impeccably without any sign of telecine judder. The Sony KDL42W653 is no slouch at handling standard-definition content too, delivering crisp upconversion without excessive ringing, as well as competent film cadence detection, though the TV’s jaggies suppression for video-based material was not as effective as Samsung’s or Panasonic’s (to be fair, the difference was more marked in HQV Benchmark than in real-life content).
Sony’s 2013 Bravias have proven to be superb gaming TVs, and the W65 is no exception. With [Scene Select] set to “Game“, the 42W653A effortlessly smashed through our existing input lag record (held by another Sony – the W8), posting a jaw-dropping figure of 14.6ms on the Leo Bodnar lag tester. Engaging [LED Motion Mode] – should you wish to do so – barely increased the lag by a mere 6ms to 20.5ms which is an excellent level of responsiveness no other non-Sony HDTVs have been capable of matching to date. Add full 4:4:4 reproduction (in [Game] and [Graphics] mode) to the equation, and we’re convinced you won’t find a better flat-screen television on which to play video games at the moment.
Read full review
andersbrohus skrev:Det med at skærmene i Elgiganten ikke er indstillet korrekt, det tvivler jeg også bare lidt på at mit bliver, fordi at jeg har ikke udstyret til at kalibrere TV eller bare skærme, syntes bare tydeligt at man kan se forskel på et billigt TV i Elgiganten og et dyrt, da det billige hakker meget mere end det dyrere, det er sikkert fordi de billige er dårlige til at lave den her sæbeopera?De skærme, der hakker, hakker fordi kildematerialet, den føromtalte og berygtede Philips demoskive, er designet til at fremprovokere hakkeri på snart sagt enhver anden skærm end Philips' egne (med motion interpolation aktiveret).
Men du vil sige jeg skal finde et Sony W6 fjernsyn?
edinger skrev:Okay, ja der kan man se.....andersbrohus skrev:Det med at skærmene i Elgiganten ikke er indstillet korrekt, det tvivler jeg også bare lidt på at mit bliver, fordi at jeg har ikke udstyret til at kalibrere TV eller bare skærme, syntes bare tydeligt at man kan se forskel på et billigt TV i Elgiganten og et dyrt, da det billige hakker meget mere end det dyrere, det er sikkert fordi de billige er dårlige til at lave den her sæbeopera?De skærme, der hakker, hakker fordi kildematerialet, den føromtalte og berygtede Philips demoskive, er designet til at fremprovokere hakkeri på snart sagt enhver anden skærm end Philips' egne (med motion interpolation aktiveret).
Men du vil sige jeg skal finde et Sony W6 fjernsyn?
Dermed ikke sagt, at visse af disse skærme ikke også i praksis vil performe dårligere end dem, som ikke hakker. Det er blot ikke en konklusion, du kan drage på baggrund af dine "selvstudier".
Det er ikke usandsynligt, at Sony W6 – der, som du kan se, er et rigtig fornuftigt valg – i Elgigantens setup, vil ligne noget, som du bestemt ikke vil have lyst til at tage med hjem. Hvilket er vildledende og en skam.
Supergris skrev:DU kan ikke se forskel, og mange andre kan måske heller ikke. Jeg ser TYDELIGT hønsenet (de sorte streger omkring hver pixel) og det udelukker fuldstændigt, totalt og endegyldigt X-modellerne - de er komplet ubrugelige for mit vedkommende (og nej, jeg er ikke så dum at jeg har bedømt fjernsynet ved at stå 20 cm foran det). Jeg er ikke absolut ikke den eneste der oplever det.[/quote]
For at kunne logge ind skal du være tilmeldt. Det tager kun få sekunder at tilmelde sig, og giver dig langt flere muligheder på boardet. Som tilmeldt bruger kan du desuden få tildelt udvidede tilladelser af en boardadministrator. Før du tilmelder dig bedes du sikre dig at du er bekendt med vore vilkår for anvendelse og relaterede politikker. Læs også reglerne for de forskellige fora når du besøger dem.
