Tilbudsjagten: 65" LG B3 OLED til 10.990,-

[sol_jakobsen]

Yes it is not quite the same. MagicTune is just a software part to control the monitor and does not control the monitor in-situ as the image changes. DFC analyze what is on the screen and adjusts the backlight accordingly.

The intelligent part of magic tune dos change according to the picture on the screen, if windows media player is activated then the image change on my 970p, but I guess it still isn’t quit the same….

[Torben Rasmussen]

I appologize then. I never run MagicTune in the background, so I have only tried the different settings when I had the program in the foreground. I don't even have the program installed on my system now as I set the values of the monitor on my old PC and don't feel the need to adjust them again

[xtknight]

Dithering/overdrive: http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/05/26/ ... page9.html

To give you an idea of how hard it is to notice on my VP930b, I can notice the "screen door" effect far before I'm able to see the dithering/FRC. More than a foot away, I don't think anybody could notice anything on this monitor.

Thanks for the video. To me it looks like the black level really increases even with just a small image (cursor) on the screen. Does fluctuating the backlight shorten its life?

Was the conclusion that the TNs with DFC technology were just as good as the MVA and PVA screens (except for viewing angle) and faster? (Assuming MVA and PVA screens were 6-bit.)

How many twists can crystals do? Will we ever see '10-bit' TFTs?

Also, I wonder if there are any patterns that could identify a 6 bit vs. an 8 bit. Are all LVDS connections 8 bit or are all RSDS ones 6 bit (just an example), etc... Or if it could be told from the TFT PDF datasheets somehow. Like this: http://www.national.com/appinfo/fpd/files/RSDS_SID.pdf

"Only 18 data lines" at bottom? 6 bit?

[Simon Baker]

The Eizo S2110W supposedly offers 14 bit colour in their spec here: http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/S2110W/index.asp

14-Bit Color Processing
EIZO's powerful new ASIC (application specific integrated circuit) provides 14-bit color processing capability for smooth, accurate grayscale and color rendering even in darker tones, which are typically difficult for LCD monitors to reproduce accurately.

Display Colors - 16.77 million from a palette of 1.06 billion

BeHardware reviewed it here as well

In terms of colors, this monitor isn’t an 8 or 10 bit, but rather a 14. If a standard monitor only uses 256 levels of color per RGB component and a 10 bit reaches 1,024, this one has 16,384 levels. This means that it can theoretically differeciate 4398 billion colors (compared to 16 million for standard LCDs).

If we look at the monitor’s specifications in detail, we see that it really only uses 1.06 billion colors (10 bits then) and only simultaneously displays at best 16 million (8 bits). The “trickâ€

[xtknight]

Don't MVA/PVA/IPS screens still use twisted nematic crystals, or do they actually use a physically different type of liquid crystal? Isn't 'twisted nematic' the name of the liquid crystal used in every screen or is it actually a term for how the liquid crystal is aligned?

Simon - 14 bit gamma, I think that means it maps the incoming 8 bit into 14 bit by interpolation(?) but I'm not sure the crystals actually have that many positions to twist in. I don't know though. I have no clue how the interpolation works to be honest.

[Simon Baker]

Twisted Nematic is the name used to describe the alignment / architecture of the liquid crystals in certain displays (ie those using TN Film). The alignment and architecture is different in IPS, MVA, PVA panels but still fundamentally use liquid crystals in the display. That part is constant, but the pixel alignment, orientation, and electronic controls vary between them all

[Rasmus Larsen]

The Eizo S2110W supposedly offers 14 bit colour in their spec here: http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/S2110W/index.asp

The 14 bit is the internal colour processing system. The panel is a 8-bit like other LCD monitors
This example by Eizo is a good example:

Thanks for the video. To me it looks like the black level really increases even with just a small image (cursor) on the screen. Does fluctuating the backlight shorten its life?

Yeah. I thought it was strange that a cursor could determine whether to intensify the backlight or not. The largest part was black and to me it would seem logical to keep the brightness down unless a larger white image appeared.
LG still have some improvement to work on.

It doesn’t shorten the lifetime significantly. It might have some role but nothing important to speak of.

Was the conclusion that the TNs with DFC technology were just as good as the MVA and PVA screens (except for viewing angle) and faster? (Assuming MVA and PVA screens were 6-bit.)

I still find PVA and MVA's better. The optimized contrast ratio wasn't as good as a "real" high contrast ratio.

How many twists can crystals do? Will we ever see '10-bit' TFTs?

Probably. But a number of modifications have to be made. We need to see new ways of transporting the signal, higher bandwidth in cables, new circuit boards, better panels and not to mention a much higher colour gamut. This cannot be achieved without using some sort of alternative backlight. It could be LEDs but it still takes a lot of development.

Also, I wonder if there are any patterns that could identify a 6 bit vs. an 8 bit.

Connectors on LCD monitors are 8-bit. The monitor needs all the information in order to do the dithering.
You can try smooth gradients but it's still hard to see. We use it when testing monitors and you'll see some vertical "lines" in the picture on TN panel. It's harder to spot on PVA and MVA and one could mistake it for minor problems with rendering all shades.

The intelligent part of magic tune dos change according to the picture on the screen, if windows media player is activated then the image change on my 970p, but I guess it still isn’t quit the same

You must be referring to the dynamic profiles in the MagicTune. It's not the exactly same but I see your point. It doesn't, however, prove to be as effective as the DFC.

[Torben Rasmussen]

Don't MVA/PVA/IPS screens still use twisted nematic crystals, or do they actually use a physically different type of liquid crystal? Isn't 'twisted nematic' the name of the liquid crystal used in every screen or is it actually a term for how the liquid crystal is aligned?

This part will be updated in the next version of flatpanels.dk with diagrams showing the physical difference between each display. The fundamental diffence between TN, IPS and VA is the way the crystals turn and how they are aligned in the off and on states. Only TN twist their crystals along an axis - the other two turn all crystals in the same direction. To be perfectly honest, the MVA and PVA does however perturb the orientations by using electrodes that have been modified in shape and are aligned asymmetrically to each other.

[xtknight]

Wow, the new design looks good!

[Rasmus Larsen]

Thank you very much =) The forums still need the final touch but we'll fix that very soon.

Btw. I have some update on the dithering and VA panel thing. I'll get into it later this week.

[xtknight]

I haven't replied in five days, but in actuality, it took me five days to think of a reply. I've been checking here quite often.

Ah, nice. I'm anxious to hear some more information on the dithering issue.

Did the 215TW turn out to be good for general usage? Gaming? It looks like it had high contrast from the graphs I can see but what about response time? True 8-bit with no dithering or FRC? Apparently the algorithm is called "Hi FRC" (high FRC) on some PDF brochure off the Samsung TFT-LCD site. I'm guessing that's the special "9-bit" kind.

[Simon Baker]

looking at the info available on the new DEll 2007WFP in the states, it seems there are a lot of problems with that screen as well. Could it be that LG.Philips are using 6 bit panels here too, the colour gradients are really suffering!?:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/blue-grey.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/red-green.jpg

should be smooth (not the large blocks obviously )

and clear in gaming too!:

http://www.groundcity.com/pics/banding/ ... ng-002.jpg


seems that this is universal across all the 2007WFP's, perhaps only an issue with DVI though...

what do you all think?

[Rasmus Larsen]

Ah, nice. I'm anxious to hear some more information on the dithering issue.

Did the 215TW turn out to be good for general usage? Gaming? It looks like it had high contrast from the graphs I can see but what about response time? True 8-bit with no dithering or FRC?

I had a thorough look at the 215TW which is based on the S-PVA panel from Samsung. Contrast was good, colours were good and response time was acceptable. You can play most games but it's not as fast as ViewSonics VX922 and the fastest monitors for gamers. The Overdrive trailing, however, wasn't bad and it was very hard to see in practice. That's an advantage over the 193p+ and 970P.

I also checked the dithering thing and found almost nothing worrying. I saw some minor errors but I'm almost sure that it's just some wrong colour reproduction. I've seen the case on the new 19 monitors more than once now and there's no doubt that e.g. the colour gradients were much smoother on the 215TW. It surely didn’t look like dithering.

Besides that the 215TW is a really nice monitor with a lot of cool features.

Apparently the algorithm is called "Hi FRC" (high FRC) on some PDF brochure off the Samsung TFT-LCD site. I'm guessing that's the special "9-bit" kind.

Where did you find that?

Could it be that LG.Philips are using 6 bit panels here too, the colour gradients are really suffering!?:

Judging from the pictures it surely looks like it. The last picture has a lot of banding. Bad or wrong colour reproduction could lead to banding but in the picture it looks too extreme.
Yeah, to me it looks like dithering, too.

I would like to see it in reality though.

[Torben Rasmussen]

looking at the info available on the new DEll 2007WFP in the states, it seems there are a lot of problems with that screen as well. Could it be that LG.Philips are using 6 bit panels here too, the colour gradients are really suffering!?:

If the picture is displayed as it is viewed by the user, there is clearly dithering present. The 970P doesn't even have that pronounced dithering patterns. The green to dark-green squares in particular are very bad.