Tilbudsjagten: 65" LG B3 OLED til 10.990,-

[Wildt]

Thanks Yakken. This site is full of useful info.
Using the analog connection, the black to white gradient of the Flash monitor test looks very smooth, and the background of the web site is a solid gray.

Then I changed the 173P input to DVI... And suddenly appeared vertical bars on the gradient, and the website's background is not solid anymore, instead there is a very tiny "grid". It looks like a solid gray from some distance, but looking at it closer (like 10 cm or less) I noticed the color is defined by a pattern!

I think this might be due to the fact that the analog signal due to it's nature is unable to produce 100% correct colors (distortion+loss of signal strength etc) meaning that an area that's supposed to have completely identical pixels, might actually have small variations. And dithering would be harder to spot when applied to an "unevenly" coloured area.

[cobain]

Wildt, I think you are right.

Analog "imperfections" can hide the dithering artifacts, while DVI, more accurate, shows them.

It's ironic that an "obsolete" analog connection can provide better results (or, at least, an illusion of more quality to the naked eye) than a more modern and precise tecnology like DVI...

Finally I understand because the manual of the standard 173P/193P says that the number of colors that these models are capable of display is only 16,2 millions. Until now I always thought it was an error, but I realized it's true. :-(

I wonder if these dithering patterns are even more visible in the Plus versions of the 173P/193P.

[Torben Rasmussen]

I might have access to a 193P at work, but as we use a bunch of 193P+ models as well and since my firm occupy 22000 square meters, it might be difficult to track them down...

If I find one, I will post the result in the section regarding dithering in the panel section.

[xtknight]

Regarding ViewSonic VP930b:

A while ago I along with other people have speculated that the VP930b is also a 6-bit like the 970P was, due to weird flickery patterns in a select series of colors. Then one user called in and ViewSonic told him it was a known electronics issue with the monitor (and meanwhile sent him a completely different model). But, one VP930b user in my thread at AnandTech said he never noticed the flickering until one day he turned it on and he saw it easily on his wallpaper (he had the same wallpaper throughout).

So this all boils down to: an electronics component that failed over time, and thats failure yielded weird patterns. Hmm, sounds a little suspicious doesn't it? After all, what kind of a "defect" would cause this flickery pattern? (Maybe poorly electromagnetic field-shielded ICs.) Maybe they just meant the P-MVA panel from AUO had serious issues.

I have also read lots about "swarming" on VA panels and I can say I've seen something like that in dark grayish colors. What causes that?

[xtknight]

Sorry, kind of off-topic, but wow, this is some cool stuff!!! http://www.behardware.com/html/news/cat ... .html#8038

More: http://www.hardware.fr/news/lire/11-03-2006/#8049

[Rasmus Larsen]

I just returned from CeBIT and have tons of pictures. I'll make an article about it soon and shall let you know when it's done.

Furthermore I will receive the 1600:1 LG monitor soon.

[Rasmus Larsen]

xtknight: You'll find the CeBIT article here: http://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?suba ... rom=&ucat=&

Part two will be online tomorrow =)

So this all boils down to: an electronics component that failed over time, and thats failure yielded weird patterns. Hmm, sounds a little suspicious doesn't it? After all, what kind of a "defect" would cause this flickery pattern?

It could be the electrical current controller or maybe just some defect when controlling the matrix. But yeah, it sounds kind of weird. I haven't heard similar reports on other monitors.

[sol_jakobsen]

Regarding ViewSonic VP930b:

A while ago I along with other people have speculated that the VP930b is also a 6-bit like the 970P was, due to weird flickery patterns in a select series of colors. Then one user called in and ViewSonic told him it was a known electronics issue with the monitor (and meanwhile sent him a completely different model). But, one VP930b user in my thread at AnandTech said he never noticed the flickering until one day he turned it on and he saw it easily on his wallpaper (he had the same wallpaper throughout).

So this all boils down to: an electronics component that failed over time, and thats failure yielded weird patterns. Hmm, sounds a little suspicious doesn't it? After all, what kind of a "defect" would cause this flickery pattern? (Maybe poorly electromagnetic field-shielded ICs.) Maybe they just meant the P-MVA panel from AUO had serious issues.

I have also read lots about "swarming" on VA panels and I can say I've seen something like that in dark grayish colors. What causes that?

it is a fact that vp930 also uses 6bit +frc http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/DE/Produ ... /VP930.htm
it seems to me like all >=8ms (overdrive) va panels isn’t true 8 bit, but maby the new isp panels fro lg is….

[xtknight]

Wow, that finally confirms my suspections about the VP930b. I wonder why ViewSonic keeps hiding these specs from their American site. I guess I still have yet to see a true 8-bit TFT.

Does 6-bit+FRC apply to all displays using that AUO P-MVA 8 ms panel or can other monitors implement it in true 8-bit mode? That makes me wonder, are there any VA-mode panels that are 8-bit and have reasonable response times? Have all the S-IPS panels been 8-bit that we know of?

It really irks me. My Samsung 710T's FRC is so much better than the ViewSonic VP930b's. The VP930b's reveals horrible artifacts in certain shades. The 970P also has ugly old-fashioned dithering. Do VA panels succumb to such techniques? Does it have something to do with the overdrive technique?

It seems there's conflicting information about 6 bit/8 bit. Is the VP930 sold in Germany 6-bit and the one sold in UK 8-bit? What about the one in the US? http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/UK/Produ ... /VP930.htm

Rasmus Larsen: Cool, I'm off to read it right now. Thanks!

[sol_jakobsen]

Wow, that finally confirms my suspections about the VP930b. I wonder why ViewSonic keeps hiding these specs from their American site. I guess I still have yet to see a true 8-bit TFT.

Does 6-bit+FRC apply to all displays using that AUO P-MVA 8 ms panel or can other monitors implement it in true 8-bit mode? That makes me wonder, are there any VA-mode panels that are 8-bit and have reasonable response times? Have all the S-IPS panels been 8-bit that we know of?

It really irks me. My Samsung 710T's FRC is so much better than the ViewSonic VP930b's. The VP930b's reveals horrible artifacts in certain shades. The 970P also has ugly old-fashioned dithering. Do VA panels succumb to such techniques? Does it have something to do with the overdrive technique?

It seems there's conflicting information about 6 bit/8 bit. Is the VP930 sold in Germany 6-bit and the one sold in UK 8-bit? What about the one in the US? http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/UK/Produ ... /VP930.htm

Rasmus Larsen: Cool, I'm off to read it right now. Thanks!

I think, and only think… that there are no real true 8 bit, va monitors with overdrive…. And yes viewsonice like Samsung write 8 bit some places, but they don’t tell you how they
â€

[Torben Rasmussen]

Personally I have also come to terms with the fact that my 193P+ shows dithering - what else can I do? It is the monitor with the most stylish look on the market IMO and it offers just a tad more on the color/contrat side.

In the new flatpanels.dk layout I have made a more detailed description about VA, PVA, MVA, TN and IPS which describes how the crytals work in each configuration. This can of course be read of the internet elsewhere, but most decent information must be extracted from articles published in scientific papers and not on homepages - we will try to make amend for this.

[xtknight]

I have noticed that the Samsung 970P's panel (LTM190E4?) is not listed as S-PVA but only PVA.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/ ... y_cd=LCD07

I suspect that all PVAs are 6-bit+2x2 dither, while all S-PVAs are true 8-bit. What do you guys think?

[sol_jakobsen]

I have noticed that the Samsung 970P's panel (LTM190E4?) is not listed as S-PVA but only PVA.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/ ... y_cd=LCD07

I suspect that all PVAs are 6-bit+2x2 dither, while all S-PVAs are true 8-bit. What do you guys think?

Samsung uses PVA >=19", and CMO P-MVA/MVA with there overdrive (ore more accurately RTC) monitors, and if you talk about dithering, i acutely have a suspicion that…… (I read this in a forum) that part of the solution in making the else extremely slow Pva and Mva/p-mva panels fast, was through reduction I collar depth…



EDIT:..................

[Rasmus Larsen]

sol_jakobsen: The 970P is not a S-PVA. The same goes for the 193p+.